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View Full Version : Osm 40 cd vs. Forcium 17 cd?



Noir
12-23-2010, 03:27 PM
What do you guys think osm 40 cd vs. Forcium 17 cd?

Hash
12-23-2010, 05:15 PM
Osm -> better for combo
Forcy -> better for bm2

Just choose the blade depending on what u prefer .. Although if you get the osm I'd say atleast pair it with a forcy s amp blade. I would say get (if you can afford it) 2x forcy db 17cd+, not many people have gear that compensates for using dual 40cd weps for bm2

Noir
12-23-2010, 07:05 PM
idk if I were to use the osm, i'd go double 40 cd osm i think. But still idk if forcy 17 cd r good idea or not. Still wana c what others think about this. And this is just for all around dungeons, mwar, pvp stuff, cause I don't have the alz to afford multiple sests of weapons right now for different purposes.

Hash
12-23-2010, 07:22 PM
idk if I were to use the osm, i'd go double 40 cd osm i think. But still idk if forcy 17 cd r good idea or not. Still wana c what others think about this.

Dual 40cd osm is a bad idea for BL bm2 on high def mobs (like bosses) unles you have 1k attack and 50amp. Use a damage calculator and decide for yourself whether the loss of damage in bm2 is worth the gain in combo. Btw, higher attack + amp is better for fillers than crit damage. Crit damage > attack + amp on DT, LS and BS. On fillers (assualt, sg, dr, ds, vi etc.) a higher attack + amp > crit damage. There's only one blader i've seen that's geared well enough to effectively use 2 40cd weps, and eventhey had redosm grade not osm grade. Ive always firmly maintained my stance that forcy db/amp craft is the best for a blader, unless u can get ur hands on a 12-15amp 1 slot lycanus weapon :P

Noir
12-23-2010, 07:41 PM
I will be able to get 1k attack and maybe like 46 amp if i use double 40 cd osm. So I'm not too worried about that part.

chainlock
12-23-2010, 08:14 PM
Use these.

http://forum.cabalonline.com/showthread.php?t=137555
http://forum.cabalonline.com/showthread.php?t=161295&highlight=character+builder

Hash
12-23-2010, 08:20 PM
I will be able to get 1k attack and maybe like 46 amp if i use double 40 cd osm. So I'm not too worried about that part.

If you know what u want then why bother asking? Here it is simplified

osm 40 > combo on "big" skills (ls,bs,dt)
forcy > everything else (bm2, fillers etc)

if u prefer comboing (basically pvping outside bi) then go for the osm
if u like soloing bosses/dungeons and such, go for the forcy.

Noir
12-23-2010, 08:30 PM
If you know what u want then why bother asking? Here it is simplified

osm 40 > combo on "big" skills (ls,bs,dt)
forcy > everything else (bm2, fillers etc)

if u prefer comboing (basically pvping outside bi) then go for the osm
if u like soloing bosses/dungeons and such, go for the forcy.

I said "if i use..." learn to read if you are going to reply me on my own quote.

Hash
12-23-2010, 09:08 PM
You Talking about bm2

So I'm not too worried about that part.

The main reason to use forcy over osm is the gain in bm2.

Osm outcrits Forcy. If you dont care about the gain in bm2, then go for dual osm 40cd.

Noir
12-23-2010, 09:27 PM
I was talking about achieving 1k attack and the amp when i said "not too worried about that part". What would be the differences of damage of non crits and crits for bm2?

Hash
12-23-2010, 09:54 PM
I was talking about achieving 1k attack and the amp when i said "not too worried about that part". What would be the differences of damage of non crits and crits for bm2?

it depends on the mob really. As mobs get higher def, the forcy starts to outdamage the osm, even on crits. I just generated a table for you using LastHour's Damage Calculator. Not exactly your stats but i just guessed :P

Dual Osm 40cd in Bm2
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5407/osmo.png (http://img145.imageshack.us/i/osmo.png/)

Dual Forcy 17cd in Bm2
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/38/forcy.png (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/forcy.png/)

All of these damages are done per hit, not for the duration of the bm2. So imagine the extra damage when u factor in how many times u hit in over a minute in bm2 with second series retarget (kick retarget)

Forcy s amp is even better in Bm2 than forcy DB. Bm2 was done on derk. Forcy 17cd isnt too much more expensive than osm 40cd, considering you need a seh for the osm. Also, all weapons were done at the same + (+11).

Noir
12-23-2010, 10:00 PM
Hmm interesting that even the crits of forcium were higher. Ya I have that excel up on my computer but looks kind of confusing =.=. As for amp, I'm trying to stray away because then I don't know how I'll perform in mission war and pvp. I can get 17 cd forcium for like 500m (but those are the char bind on equip ones <-- which is probably why). What do you think is the best setup to do the most damage in just mission war?

Hash
12-23-2010, 10:22 PM
Hmm interesting that even the crits of forcium were higher. Ya I have that excel up on my computer but looks kind of confusing =.=. As for amp, I'm trying to stray away because then I don't know how I'll perform in mission war and pvp. I can get 17 cd forcium for like 500m (but those are the char bind on equip ones <-- which is probably why). What do you think is the best setup to do the most damage in just mission war?

If your going for killing players, probably the dual osm 40cd (bm1 + combo > bm2 in war .. atleast for me it is), but if u manage to hold on to legacy weapons for a while then weapons become useless.

Noir
12-23-2010, 11:15 PM
I see, so I think I'll go dual 40 cd osm for now, and get dual forcium amps for pve bosses (when I can afford them).

Hash
12-23-2010, 11:42 PM
I see, so I think I'll go dual 40 cd osm for now, and get dual forcium amps for pve bosses (when I can afford them).

i can make a chart of dual forcy amps in bm2 if u want, but i would honestly go for amp craft forcy (forcy of amp 4% s amp 10cd atleast) but its expensive to try and cabal crafting fails :P

Noir
12-24-2010, 07:56 AM
ya that would be good, eh amp forcy craft is hell expensive lol. And can u make a chart of osm 40 cd with forcium 20 cd? I wana see how that would compare to double osm 40.

Hash
12-24-2010, 04:22 PM
Dual Forcy 7 s amp <-- Best bm2 out of these 3 options
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4517/forcy7samp.png (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/forcy7samp.png/)

Dual Forcy 4amp/10cd <-- Balanced Between bm2 and combo
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3923/forcy4amp10cd.png (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/forcy4amp10cd.png/)

Osm 40cd and Forcy 20cd <--- Best Combo out of these 3 options
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8215/forcyosm.png (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/forcyosm.png/)

Noir
12-24-2010, 06:36 PM
Something is not right: the critical hits of the dual forcy amp do more than the osm cd, that can't be right? Also the Forcium 20 cd/osm 40 pair has higher critical hits than the double osmium?

Deathlymonkey
12-24-2010, 06:47 PM
Something is not right: the critical hits of the dual forcy amp do more than the osm cd, that can't be right? Also the Forcium 20 cd/osm 40 pair has higher critical hits than the double osmium?

At some point the higher Atk/Amp makes up for the loss of crit dmg.

Hash
12-24-2010, 07:29 PM
Crit damage is a multiplier. If you don't break the def of an opponent then your crits won't do a lot of damage. Attack + amp is used to break the defense of an opponent, and after that crit damage becomes more effective.

If you do 100 per hit with 100 crit damage, you only hit 200 on crits .. Blader bm2 doesn't have a lot of attack gain conpared to other classes, so we need as much attack and amp to pierce a bosses def

Noir
12-24-2010, 08:51 PM
the way it is looking right now is that, dual forciums of any kind if doing more damage of both crits and non crits then any osmium pair.

Hash
12-24-2010, 09:01 PM
the way it is looking right now is that, dual forciums of any kind if doing more damage of both crits and non crits then any osmium pair.

Yeah pretty much for bm2 on high def mobs forcy is the best. Although crits while comboing is stronger with osm 40cd. There is a noticable difference in combo, but forcy increases non-crits while crits are lowered by a bit. Overall I'd have to say that forcy is better than most other weapons, but I still want a lycanus 12amp 1 slot blade :D

Noir
12-24-2010, 10:31 PM
those damage calculators was for bm2, can u post for combos if u don't mind?

chainlock
12-24-2010, 11:47 PM
those damage calculators was for bm2, can u post for combos if u don't mind?

It'll be easier on you to just check the links I posted.

Mat
12-25-2010, 05:41 AM
you guys are being too narrow minded about this, you're only comparing derk dmg when everyone knows forcy>all when it comes to derk because of his higher than normal defense.

also, you need to factor in the players gear/lvl in a more endgame matter(lvl 180 max runes etc..), and also take into consideration that the osm would be more easy to upgrade past 9 or 11 for the time being. with that being said, you can look at this a ton of different ways. get a 17 dmg forcy in hopes you can maybe + it higher than 11 or even extend it for 31 dmg (lol wut) or get a 40 dmg osm that you might be able to get to +12 or higher realistically much more easier than the forcy.

..id go with a 17 in one hand and a 40 in the other..of course it depends on the + of both as well so you cant really find out which ones better in the long run, because at certain points, a 40 dmg osm blade will hit harder than a 40 dmg forcy blade if the +'s are much different...

+15 40 dmg osm blade > +7 40 dmg forcy blade..of course everyone would choose the forcy because of its endgame potential but you get what im saying..you guys should not only factor in the grade of the weapon but the difficulty of unlocking its endgame potential, (sehh/uchh vs seh/uch)

Hash
12-25-2010, 09:00 AM
you guys are being too narrow minded about this, you're only comparing derk dmg when everyone knows forcy>all when it comes to derk because of his higher than normal defense.

also, you need to factor in the players gear/lvl in a more endgame matter(lvl 180 max runes etc..), and also take into consideration that the osm would be more easy to upgrade past 9 or 11 for the time being. with that being said, you can look at this a ton of different ways. get a 17 dmg forcy in hopes you can maybe + it higher than 11 or even extend it for 31 dmg (lol wut) or get a 40 dmg osm that you might be able to get to +12 or higher realistically much more easier than the forcy.

..id go with a 17 in one hand and a 40 in the other..of course it depends on the + of both as well so you cant really find out which ones better in the long run, because at certain points, a 40 dmg osm blade will hit harder than a 40 dmg forcy blade if the +'s are much different...

+15 40 dmg osm blade > +7 40 dmg forcy blade..of course everyone would choose the forcy because of its endgame potential but you get what im saying..you guys should not only factor in the grade of the weapon but the difficulty of unlocking its endgame potential, (sehh/uchh vs seh/uch)

Well .. I'd say it's a similar price for a forcy 7s amp +11 and an osm 40cd +11 as SeH is needed to extend the osm. SeH=1-1.5b .. Blade would cost quite a bit if already +'ed up (atleast 600m) and It could take even more alz to + it from +0 (200m blade + cost of +'ing it) at best your looking at Atleast 1.5b for an osm +11 40cd blade, which is pretty much the cost of a forcy 7s amp +10/11.
Even if all the mats are crafted for an osm 40cd, I'd still prefer to sell them and buy a better blade.

Oh and I thought that the test would best be performed on derk as there are bosses with even more def than him (even dungeon bosses) and people love spamming derk hoping for an epic.

Noir
12-25-2010, 03:06 PM
http://forum.cabal.com/showthread.php?13750-Lycanus-Blade <---- check that out

Noir
12-25-2010, 03:07 PM
you guys are being too narrow minded about this, you're only comparing derk dmg when everyone knows forcy>all when it comes to derk because of his higher than normal defense.

also, you need to factor in the players gear/lvl in a more endgame matter(lvl 180 max runes etc..), and also take into consideration that the osm would be more easy to upgrade past 9 or 11 for the time being. with that being said, you can look at this a ton of different ways. get a 17 dmg forcy in hopes you can maybe + it higher than 11 or even extend it for 31 dmg (lol wut) or get a 40 dmg osm that you might be able to get to +12 or higher realistically much more easier than the forcy.

..id go with a 17 in one hand and a 40 in the other..of course it depends on the + of both as well so you cant really find out which ones better in the long run, because at certain points, a 40 dmg osm blade will hit harder than a 40 dmg forcy blade if the +'s are much different...

+15 40 dmg osm blade > +7 40 dmg forcy blade..of course everyone would choose the forcy because of its endgame potential but you get what im saying..you guys should not only factor in the grade of the weapon but the difficulty of unlocking its endgame potential, (sehh/uchh vs seh/uch)

Do you think that's the best setup in terms of dishing out some damage in war? Also say if my budget is a maximum of 2-3b for one weapon, what would be your end game setup (for war).

Sephiroth
12-30-2010, 10:12 PM
Id go with a 20% Forcium +11 for everything or 7% amp/10% dmg Forcium if you find one ^.^

Down the road your gonna wanna make alz by doing dungeons, boss hunting etc etc... and
126 attack per blade just wont cut it.


Lets assume EST releases new dungeons with bosses with
higher defense, where you mandatory need crazy high attack? xD

Not to mention you dont wanna be in this scenario

Lv 160 EpicFA request pvp
Lv 160 BL Accepts

FA won.

BL.... I didnt Crit....

FA out dps you xD

Normally this is how it goes with me

Me vs Epic FA

I win
FA: omg hax dmg


Most of the time I dont even get to use LS, my high attack/amp and fillers pwn even on non crits :)
Plus it seems like Im criting when Im not. Im runnin on 34% rate sadly.

But like Matri said, If you get Osm/Red Osm
Buckle up and +12/13 them boys.

DaSmexy
12-31-2010, 02:15 AM
it depends on the mob really. As mobs get higher def, the forcy starts to outdamage the osm, even on crits. I just generated a table for you using LastHour's Damage Calculator. Not exactly your stats but i just guessed :P

Dual Osm 40cd in Bm2
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5407/osmo.png (http://img145.imageshack.us/i/osmo.png/)

Dual Forcy 17cd in Bm2
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/38/forcy.png (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/forcy.png/)

All of these damages are done per hit, not for the duration of the bm2. So imagine the extra damage when u factor in how many times u hit in over a minute in bm2 with second series retarget (kick retarget)

Forcy s amp is even better in Bm2 than forcy DB. Bm2 was done on derk. Forcy 17cd isnt too much more expensive than osm 40cd, considering you need a seh for the osm. Also, all weapons were done at the same + (+11).

lol finally hash you understand why my BL used duo forcy blade B4 lol
guess i was right eh

TouchMyOneInchBeast
01-11-2011, 03:49 AM
Citrine Orb +14 +21 Amp would be the better choice.

Hash
01-11-2011, 06:44 AM
lol finally hash you understand why my BL used duo forcy blade B4 lol
guess i was right eh

lmao we were talking about amp craft forcy v db forcy .. id still prefer 2x 4amp/10cd over 2x 17cd forcy :D